Lee, my next door neighbor, has lived in Oakland her entire life. I interviewed her about her exciting memories of Oakland and the challenges she’s faced here. She lives by herself in a small house that’s barely changed since the 1950’s, when she moved in with her parents: from vintage furniture and silverware, to lace curtains and an array of stuffed animals. In recent years, my mom has taken her to a lot of doctor’s appointments, and I always run into her at Trader Joe’s. I’ve heard some of her interesting stories from my mom, and I wanted to hear some first hand. It was empowering to see someone of her age, living by herself--and happy.
Talking to Lee made me see that despite going through a lot of stuff, one can still be happy with themselves and on their own. It’s important to remember the good things because it’s very easy to just dwell on everything that could’ve been better. Each time in history had its own special things that made it good, and it’s up to the individual to find the good things about the present.

Naseem: Who were your favorite movie stars as a teenager?
Lee: I really liked Rock Hudson. Boy, he was handsome. In fact I saw Rock Hudson at the T and D Theater. In those days they used to have the movie stars come up from Hollywood.
Lee: I really liked Rock Hudson. Boy, he was handsome. In fact I saw Rock Hudson at the T and D Theater. In those days they used to have the movie stars come up from Hollywood.

Naseem: Where was the T and D theater?
Lee: The T and D Theater was on 10th or 8th Street, right off of Broadway. It was one of the big movie theaters with the Paramount and Box Oakland, but the T and D got a lot of movie stars at that time and whatever movie they were in, they would come up. Oh, this is funny. My mother was in the hospital with me for two weeks and they liked movies so much that when we got out of the hospital we went to a movie. And you know what movie it was? It Happened One Night with Claudette Colbert. It was made in 1933, the year I was born. And you know how I am about my age, I don’t tell that to a lot of people.
Naseem: Where did you go to see movies?
Lee: The T and D Theater was on 10th or 8th Street, right off of Broadway. It was one of the big movie theaters with the Paramount and Box Oakland, but the T and D got a lot of movie stars at that time and whatever movie they were in, they would come up. Oh, this is funny. My mother was in the hospital with me for two weeks and they liked movies so much that when we got out of the hospital we went to a movie. And you know what movie it was? It Happened One Night with Claudette Colbert. It was made in 1933, the year I was born. And you know how I am about my age, I don’t tell that to a lot of people.
Naseem: Where did you go to see movies?

Lee: The Market Hall used to be the Chimes Theater. And then there was one on 40th Street and Telegraph and it was a big, good looking theater, called the Central. It’s a church now. We used to walk there, and to the Chimes. We did a lot of walking in those days. During the war my father gave up his car because gas and tires were rationed and he worked in the shipyards. Another thing we used to do was walk down to the train station on 16th street from my grandmother’s house and watch the trains come in. It was like Grand Central Station. And near there was the Carnation Milk factory and they had good ice cream there. We’d also go to a neighborhood theater there where they gave away different silverware and dishes to get people to come to the movies. We went so often my mom got the whole set! On Cypress street there was a fishing place, and they had big tubs out with crabs and we’d get live ones in little cups and cook them at home.

Naseem: Where did you live before here?
Lee: We lived in a little cottage behind another house on 28th street. A cute little place, but my bedroom was supposed to be the living room. We didn’t have a tv, a telephone, nothing, even though everyone else did. My father was the only one working. He didn’t want my mother to work… It was really a lot of fun. When my father would hide my Christmas gifts away so they could be from Santa Claus. Well, he tried to hide things, but you can’t hide things from me. I would find them. But anyway, when we moved here, we had to buy new furniture and we got a television. Before we moved here we had a radio and listened to all the radio shows. A lot of good ones. You know, you listened to the same ones, it was a regular thing.
Naseem: What was your favorite radio show?
Lee: Oh god… there were so many! Well we used to listen to the comedians, George Burns and Gracie Allen.
Naseem: Oh, I love Gracie!
Lee: What’s the other one... Fibber McGee and Mollie. We listened to a lot but it takes me a while to remember them.
Lee: We lived in a little cottage behind another house on 28th street. A cute little place, but my bedroom was supposed to be the living room. We didn’t have a tv, a telephone, nothing, even though everyone else did. My father was the only one working. He didn’t want my mother to work… It was really a lot of fun. When my father would hide my Christmas gifts away so they could be from Santa Claus. Well, he tried to hide things, but you can’t hide things from me. I would find them. But anyway, when we moved here, we had to buy new furniture and we got a television. Before we moved here we had a radio and listened to all the radio shows. A lot of good ones. You know, you listened to the same ones, it was a regular thing.
Naseem: What was your favorite radio show?
Lee: Oh god… there were so many! Well we used to listen to the comedians, George Burns and Gracie Allen.
Naseem: Oh, I love Gracie!
Lee: What’s the other one... Fibber McGee and Mollie. We listened to a lot but it takes me a while to remember them.
Naseem: What kinds of things did you learn?
Lee: Well, typing and business things. I was horrible at typing. I was so slow. It wasn’t my thing. After that didn’t work out, I tried Cosmetology, at Merritt. That was free, except the clothes you had to buy to go there.
Naseem: This was like community college?
Lee: Yeah. I used to fix everybody’s hair, the whole family, friends, and they loved it. I thought it would be a good thing for me to do since I like to do it. Well, it was fun until I started doing patrons, and not the cheap ones. Why? Because they were all too fussy! I wasn’t used to that. People enjoyed what I did and liked what I did, except my grandmother. She would always say, ooh I hate the way you did my bangs. She always wanted her forehead covered. At least she was happy that I did it. But these ladies were complaining too much, so that was the end of it. Then the last one was Dental Hygiene. Why I ever picked that, I don’t know, because that was not me. I bought the uniform, white dress, white socks, white shoes. After that I realized I was a salesperson, and I loved it.
Naseem: What elementary school did you go to in Emeryville?
Lee: Clausson. And the junior high school, Herbert Hoover, was on West street. We used to sing this silly song, ‘Herbet Hoover Junior High School all hail to’ something like that. In school we used to watch movies. One we saw was with Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman and Claude Reins. They didn’t show any movies at Emery High School, but there was a jukebox in the lunchroom. And we had rainy days. If it rained by twelve o’clock, we could go home. And we had a lot of them. I could never figure out why. Maybe they were thinking about the kids getting wet, coming back, and getting sick. We always used to pray for heavy rain by twelve o’clock.
Naseem: How many of the people in your high school went on to college?
Lee: Not a lot, really. Not in my class, anyway. My class was only twelve students that graduated.
Naseem: Did you want to go on to college?
Lee: Well, I went to business school. It was called Merritt Business School. But I wasn’t good at that.
Naseem: What kinds of things did you learn?
Lee: Well, typing and business things. I was horrible at typing. I was so slow. It wasn’t my thing. After that didn’t work out, I tried Cosmetology, at Merritt. That was free, except the clothes you had to buy to go there.
Naseem: This was like community college?
Lee: Yeah. I used to fix everybody’s hair, the whole family, friends, and they loved it. I thought it would be a good thing for me to do since I like to do it. Well, it was fun until I started doing patrons, and not the cheap ones. Why? Because they were all too fussy! I wasn’t used to that. People enjoyed what I did and liked what I did, except my grandmother. She would always say, ooh I hate the way you did my bangs. She always wanted her forehead covered. At least she was happy that I did it. But these ladies were complaining too much, so that was the end of it. Then the last one was Dental Hygiene. Why I ever picked that, I don’t know, because that was not me. I bought the uniform, white dress, white socks, white shoes. After that I realized I was a salesperson, and I loved it.
Lee: Well, typing and business things. I was horrible at typing. I was so slow. It wasn’t my thing. After that didn’t work out, I tried Cosmetology, at Merritt. That was free, except the clothes you had to buy to go there.
Naseem: This was like community college?
Lee: Yeah. I used to fix everybody’s hair, the whole family, friends, and they loved it. I thought it would be a good thing for me to do since I like to do it. Well, it was fun until I started doing patrons, and not the cheap ones. Why? Because they were all too fussy! I wasn’t used to that. People enjoyed what I did and liked what I did, except my grandmother. She would always say, ooh I hate the way you did my bangs. She always wanted her forehead covered. At least she was happy that I did it. But these ladies were complaining too much, so that was the end of it. Then the last one was Dental Hygiene. Why I ever picked that, I don’t know, because that was not me. I bought the uniform, white dress, white socks, white shoes. After that I realized I was a salesperson, and I loved it.
Naseem: What elementary school did you go to in Emeryville?
Lee: Clausson. And the junior high school, Herbert Hoover, was on West street. We used to sing this silly song, ‘Herbet Hoover Junior High School all hail to’ something like that. In school we used to watch movies. One we saw was with Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman and Claude Reins. They didn’t show any movies at Emery High School, but there was a jukebox in the lunchroom. And we had rainy days. If it rained by twelve o’clock, we could go home. And we had a lot of them. I could never figure out why. Maybe they were thinking about the kids getting wet, coming back, and getting sick. We always used to pray for heavy rain by twelve o’clock.
Naseem: How many of the people in your high school went on to college?
Lee: Not a lot, really. Not in my class, anyway. My class was only twelve students that graduated.
Naseem: Did you want to go on to college?
Lee: Well, I went to business school. It was called Merritt Business School. But I wasn’t good at that.
Naseem: What kinds of things did you learn?
Lee: Well, typing and business things. I was horrible at typing. I was so slow. It wasn’t my thing. After that didn’t work out, I tried Cosmetology, at Merritt. That was free, except the clothes you had to buy to go there.
Naseem: This was like community college?
Lee: Yeah. I used to fix everybody’s hair, the whole family, friends, and they loved it. I thought it would be a good thing for me to do since I like to do it. Well, it was fun until I started doing patrons, and not the cheap ones. Why? Because they were all too fussy! I wasn’t used to that. People enjoyed what I did and liked what I did, except my grandmother. She would always say, ooh I hate the way you did my bangs. She always wanted her forehead covered. At least she was happy that I did it. But these ladies were complaining too much, so that was the end of it. Then the last one was Dental Hygiene. Why I ever picked that, I don’t know, because that was not me. I bought the uniform, white dress, white socks, white shoes. After that I realized I was a salesperson, and I loved it.

Naseem: Where did you work?
Lee: When I first started it was Roads, in Downtown Oakland, on Telegraph and 15th.
Naseem: Oh, that’s near where I go to school!
Lee: They remodeled it and everything. I think they still have the dome, though. They had a beautiful dome. It’s called the Rotunda building now. Upstairs are offices, and downstairs is Men’s Warehouse or something.
Naseem: Where did you work after Roads?
Lee: An ice cream place on Broadway, McFarland’s. It’s some kind of second hand clothing store now. I was scooping ice cream there and of course everyone got big scoops from me, and then they said, no, your scoops are too big, so we want you to weigh the scoops. After I left there, I went to Capwell's, and I ended up in the candy department in the Emporium. The Emporium used to be at 20th and Broadway. Between Broadway and Telegraph.
Naseem: What was this neighborhood like? Who were the neighbors?
Lee: When we first moved in, the firemen had just left. [The house that I live in used to be a fire station. Lee lives next door.] And then the firemen used to help everyone on the street, offered to cut their lawns and stuff to kill some time, but we never got to see them. Everyone was sorry to see them go. I guess the guys were so nice. The neighbors were all nice. Everybody was white and then they started selling to black people. I used to babysit for the kids next door, she had three kids. I also babysat for the house across the street.
Naseem: Who lived in my house after the firemen left? (I also asked my mom this question and she said several churches rented our house in the 60’s and 70’s but Lee said she didn’t remember this.)
Lee: I don’t remember any churches there. The only one I remember is Fabian, who your parents bought it from. He rented downstairs to a young kid and I hate to tell you what happened. This young kid moved in and the telephone company made a mistake and put him onto my line, which I didn’t know about. (At that time you could get a reduced rate for something called a party line, where you shared the line with someone else, and sometimes you’d pick up the phone and the other person would be talking, but you were supposed to hang up. Lee had a personal line, but the phone company mixed up and turned it into a party line). And I was talking to my boyfriend one night, and I was telling him about Fabian, the little things that were going on… and the young kid heard my conversation and told Fabian. Fabian called me and said you better watch what you say, and I said, I’m sorry, I only said what I saw, you know. It wasn’t that big of a deal. I was just telling my boyfriend what was going on. You know, Fabian had girlfriends… and he had boyfriends. And I must’ve said something like, well, he’s got his change again, and Fabian was mad at me. He didn’t talk to me for about six months. But he got over it. And he collected sports cars, and when he moved, he gave me one. It was a really cute red sports car out of porcelain. I don’t know if he made it, or what. It broke and I felt so bad.
Naseem: How old is Fabian? Is he still alive? Are you still in touch with him?
Lee: When we first moved in, the firemen had just left. [The house that I live in used to be a fire station. Lee lives next door.] And then the firemen used to help everyone on the street, offered to cut their lawns and stuff to kill some time, but we never got to see them. Everyone was sorry to see them go. I guess the guys were so nice. The neighbors were all nice. Everybody was white and then they started selling to black people. I used to babysit for the kids next door, she had three kids. I also babysat for the house across the street.
Naseem: Who lived in my house after the firemen left? (I also asked my mom this question and she said several churches rented our house in the 60’s and 70’s but Lee said she didn’t remember this.)
Lee: I don’t remember any churches there. The only one I remember is Fabian, who your parents bought it from. He rented downstairs to a young kid and I hate to tell you what happened. This young kid moved in and the telephone company made a mistake and put him onto my line, which I didn’t know about. (At that time you could get a reduced rate for something called a party line, where you shared the line with someone else, and sometimes you’d pick up the phone and the other person would be talking, but you were supposed to hang up. Lee had a personal line, but the phone company mixed up and turned it into a party line). And I was talking to my boyfriend one night, and I was telling him about Fabian, the little things that were going on… and the young kid heard my conversation and told Fabian. Fabian called me and said you better watch what you say, and I said, I’m sorry, I only said what I saw, you know. It wasn’t that big of a deal. I was just telling my boyfriend what was going on. You know, Fabian had girlfriends… and he had boyfriends. And I must’ve said something like, well, he’s got his change again, and Fabian was mad at me. He didn’t talk to me for about six months. But he got over it. And he collected sports cars, and when he moved, he gave me one. It was a really cute red sports car out of porcelain. I don’t know if he made it, or what. It broke and I felt so bad.
Naseem: How old is Fabian? Is he still alive? Are you still in touch with him?
Lee: He called me once at Christmas time to wish me a happy holidays. He said, just wanted to know how you’re doing but I never heard from him after that. He went to New Mexico with his family. But rumors were… this is just a rumor… I don’t know if it’s true or not, that he had AIDs. They said he had his breakout all over his skin. The neighbors said that he had AIDs and that’s why he decided to sell and go live where his family was. But who knows.
Naseem: That’s interesting. I should write a story about Fabian. He sounds cool. So what were your favorite places to hang out with your friends? Did you go anywhere in Downtown Berkeley or did you always stay in Oakland?
Naseem: That’s interesting. I should write a story about Fabian. He sounds cool. So what were your favorite places to hang out with your friends? Did you go anywhere in Downtown Berkeley or did you always stay in Oakland?

Lee: Well, the big thing was the roller rink across the street from Kasper’s. It was jammed. We went there every Friday night. And we used to go to the ice rink in Berkeley. Ice Land.

And I went to Baseball with my dad. In fact I heard today, and I felt so bad, a player for the San Francisco Giants--they used to be called the San Francisco Seals--his name was David Davenport, he just died. He was my age and he died of natural causes. We went to a stadium in Emeryville and it was called the Oakland Oaks right across from the Oak’s Room, below 40th. And when I was at Emery high, we would eat lunch at the ballpark while the guys were practicing and talk to all the ball players.
Naseem: I know dancing was a big thing to do back then. Did you go dancing much?
Lee: Dancing came in later years when I had a boyfriend. He wasn’t a dancer but we went because he knew I liked it. And after he passed away, I was working at Liberty House then, because he died in ‘79, I had a couple of bad years. You know, but I came out of it. Then I started to go dancing with the girls down at Liberty House. We went to Jack London Square on Wednesday nights and Friday nights. That helped me in getting over my anxiety and the stress. Because that left me… very, very… difficult. I used to come home from work, have my dinner with my parents, go into my room, close the door, and the same thing all the time I thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown. I thought I would never, ever get over it. That was the first love of my life. He was an artist. He was thirteen years older than me and I’d known him from when we lived down on 28th street. I was going to grammar school and he was already out of the service and going to arts and craft school. It took me a long time to get over that and the way he died, you know. It was just terrible.
Lee: Dancing came in later years when I had a boyfriend. He wasn’t a dancer but we went because he knew I liked it. And after he passed away, I was working at Liberty House then, because he died in ‘79, I had a couple of bad years. You know, but I came out of it. Then I started to go dancing with the girls down at Liberty House. We went to Jack London Square on Wednesday nights and Friday nights. That helped me in getting over my anxiety and the stress. Because that left me… very, very… difficult. I used to come home from work, have my dinner with my parents, go into my room, close the door, and the same thing all the time I thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown. I thought I would never, ever get over it. That was the first love of my life. He was an artist. He was thirteen years older than me and I’d known him from when we lived down on 28th street. I was going to grammar school and he was already out of the service and going to arts and craft school. It took me a long time to get over that and the way he died, you know. It was just terrible.

Naseem: Where did you guys go dancing?
Lee: He would take me to dinner and we used to go all over. Mostly San Francisco, ‘cause he’d say if we’re gonna spend that kind of money, we might as well do it in San Francisco. We used to go to the Tonga Room in the Fairmont Hotel.
Naseem: Where did he work?
Lee: He did the advertising for a liquor company.
Naseem: Did you ever go dancing at Sweet’s Ballroom?
Lee: No, that was where the older people went. My aunt used to go there. This fellow I met, Jim, we went together for thirteen years, and his mother would go to Sweet’s all the time. She had ballroom gowns for every time they went. And it’s still there?
Naseem: Yeah, it’s really pretty. My school owns it and uses it for events and stuff.
Lee: He would take me to dinner and we used to go all over. Mostly San Francisco, ‘cause he’d say if we’re gonna spend that kind of money, we might as well do it in San Francisco. We used to go to the Tonga Room in the Fairmont Hotel.
Naseem: Where did he work?
Lee: He did the advertising for a liquor company.
Naseem: Did you ever go dancing at Sweet’s Ballroom?
Lee: No, that was where the older people went. My aunt used to go there. This fellow I met, Jim, we went together for thirteen years, and his mother would go to Sweet’s all the time. She had ballroom gowns for every time they went. And it’s still there?
Naseem: Yeah, it’s really pretty. My school owns it and uses it for events and stuff.
Lee: Another place Jim’s mother went dancing on Grand Avenue was the Ali Baba. In fact my father’s younger sister met her husband there. I never went to Ali Baba or Sweet’s.
Naseem: If you could say three ways that Oakland has changed the most since you were my age, what would they be?
Lee: Well, let’s put it this way. I was happy with the way it was, and I’m very happy with what’s going on now. As far as changing, the times have changed, and I’m happy to see it as long as it’s good. I’m happy in Oakland. The young people make the change in everything. Back then, everyone sat on their front porch and talked to their neighbors, and now, everybody is rushing. There’s no time because everything is so different. Then people were more relaxed and calm.
Naseem: If you could say three ways that Oakland has changed the most since you were my age, what would they be?
Lee: Well, let’s put it this way. I was happy with the way it was, and I’m very happy with what’s going on now. As far as changing, the times have changed, and I’m happy to see it as long as it’s good. I’m happy in Oakland. The young people make the change in everything. Back then, everyone sat on their front porch and talked to their neighbors, and now, everybody is rushing. There’s no time because everything is so different. Then people were more relaxed and calm.
Naseem: Do you think the neighborhood was safer back then than it is now?
Lee: Oh definitely, that’s for sure.
Naseem: When you first moved here, did you lock your front door when you went out?
Lee: Oh yeah.
Naseem: Did you have the door locked when you were at home?
Lee: Yeah. That hasn’t changed. We used to leave the car unlocked, though. You definitely have to lock everything now, and don’t make any mistakes.
Naseem: How did your parents meet?
Lee: They met when my mother lived in West Oakland, down on 12th street. I don’t know how they met. I never did ask. My father was raised on 62nd street off of San Pablo. My mother used to say that when they first got acquainted, he said, ‘if I kiss you, will you slap me?’ And he got very close with my mother’s family. He had a car then and he used to take them to Albany and they’d drive up and down the hills and say, whoopee! Whoopee!
My father hated fish, you know. It was a funny thing, when he had his accident he was in San Francisco Kaiser Hospital for three months unconscious. They said my dad would be a vegetable, well he was not a vegetable. When he was first coming out of the coma, he didn’t know what he was eating, and one time when I went to visit him, I told him he’d eaten fish. He couldn’t even stand the smell of fish, and I teased him all the time about it. He never believed me on that one. He was in a room with a gentleman with brain cancer. They learned how to make beds together and always argued over who could make the better bed. He got workmen’s compensation, which was a big deal back then. The doctors were all wrong about him. See they don’t know everything. He taught himself to write all the checks. He couldn’t drive anymore, but he and my mother would walk to Downtown Oakland, and the theaters at night. He was slow and off balance, but his mind healed. It was amazing.
We had our differences, though. He was a republican, and I was a democrat. Oh, we had so many wars over politics. Because he was a worker, you would think he’d be a democrat. His brothers were all rich, though. They made their fortune buying shares in the garbage company when they were young. My mother’s family were all democrats. And those debates when the families got together!
Lee: Oh definitely, that’s for sure.
Naseem: When you first moved here, did you lock your front door when you went out?
Lee: Oh yeah.
Naseem: Did you have the door locked when you were at home?
Lee: Yeah. That hasn’t changed. We used to leave the car unlocked, though. You definitely have to lock everything now, and don’t make any mistakes.
Naseem: How did your parents meet?
Lee: They met when my mother lived in West Oakland, down on 12th street. I don’t know how they met. I never did ask. My father was raised on 62nd street off of San Pablo. My mother used to say that when they first got acquainted, he said, ‘if I kiss you, will you slap me?’ And he got very close with my mother’s family. He had a car then and he used to take them to Albany and they’d drive up and down the hills and say, whoopee! Whoopee!
My father hated fish, you know. It was a funny thing, when he had his accident he was in San Francisco Kaiser Hospital for three months unconscious. They said my dad would be a vegetable, well he was not a vegetable. When he was first coming out of the coma, he didn’t know what he was eating, and one time when I went to visit him, I told him he’d eaten fish. He couldn’t even stand the smell of fish, and I teased him all the time about it. He never believed me on that one. He was in a room with a gentleman with brain cancer. They learned how to make beds together and always argued over who could make the better bed. He got workmen’s compensation, which was a big deal back then. The doctors were all wrong about him. See they don’t know everything. He taught himself to write all the checks. He couldn’t drive anymore, but he and my mother would walk to Downtown Oakland, and the theaters at night. He was slow and off balance, but his mind healed. It was amazing.
We had our differences, though. He was a republican, and I was a democrat. Oh, we had so many wars over politics. Because he was a worker, you would think he’d be a democrat. His brothers were all rich, though. They made their fortune buying shares in the garbage company when they were young. My mother’s family were all democrats. And those debates when the families got together!
Naseem: When did your parents’ families come to the Bay Area?
Lee: My parents were born here. On my father’s side they immigrated from Italy, and on my mother’s side, they were from Austria. My mother’s parents spoke Yugoslavian. At the time it was Austria but now it’s Yugoslavia. My grandmothers didn’t speak English. In order to talk to my mother’s mother, I learned Yugoslavian. Italian is a beautiful language and I wish I would’ve learned it. I lost it when my grandmother died, though. Her name was Annie. You’d see her everywhere. When she became a citizen, she was so proud, she made sure to let everyone know. We’d go to St. Augustine Church together, and wait for the bus on Alcatraz together. And in those days, if the bus was late, she’d knock on car windows and say, mister! mister! would you mind driving us to Church? And I’d tell her, Nana, don’t do that! Don’t do that! and she’d tell me to shut up. You sure wouldn’t do that today.
Naseem: Is there anything else you’d like to tell me? How was it remembering all these things?
Lee: I think about how stuff used to be all the time. It’s so easy to forget the good things, you know. I had all these wonderful things growing up and I wouldn’t want to change any of it. At the time, I was always upset with my dad, I thought he was too strict. But I knew he loved me, and that was so important. I didn’t tell him enough, you know. I only wish I had that chance to thank him like I really should’ve, instead of being mad at him.
Lee: My parents were born here. On my father’s side they immigrated from Italy, and on my mother’s side, they were from Austria. My mother’s parents spoke Yugoslavian. At the time it was Austria but now it’s Yugoslavia. My grandmothers didn’t speak English. In order to talk to my mother’s mother, I learned Yugoslavian. Italian is a beautiful language and I wish I would’ve learned it. I lost it when my grandmother died, though. Her name was Annie. You’d see her everywhere. When she became a citizen, she was so proud, she made sure to let everyone know. We’d go to St. Augustine Church together, and wait for the bus on Alcatraz together. And in those days, if the bus was late, she’d knock on car windows and say, mister! mister! would you mind driving us to Church? And I’d tell her, Nana, don’t do that! Don’t do that! and she’d tell me to shut up. You sure wouldn’t do that today.
Naseem: Is there anything else you’d like to tell me? How was it remembering all these things?
Lee: I think about how stuff used to be all the time. It’s so easy to forget the good things, you know. I had all these wonderful things growing up and I wouldn’t want to change any of it. At the time, I was always upset with my dad, I thought he was too strict. But I knew he loved me, and that was so important. I didn’t tell him enough, you know. I only wish I had that chance to thank him like I really should’ve, instead of being mad at him.